Inside Interview in the At The Copa booklet

Ever since 1957 when his debut disc, "You Send Me" sold nearly two million copies in a few short months, Sam Cooke has been one of the most consistent hit makers and record sellers on the platter scene.

A natural soul singer, Sam has his roots in gospel music. In high school he formed a teen-age gospel quartet that had their own radio show over a local Chicago network. Sam became lead tenor for the famous Soul Stirrers and helped them rack up an impressive string of 15 straight gospel hits.

Af ter a great deal of persuasion, Sam agreed to try pop music, The success of "You Send Me" made him a star. Every disc he's recorded since has increased hls reputation,

Recently, RHYTHM & BLUES correspondent Don Paulsen interviewed Sam during the RCA Victor star's successful engagement at the Copacabana in New York City:

PAULSEN -You 've been a top star in the music world for a long time, Sam. What sort of changes has success made in your life?

COOKE -Now I have less free time to myself, But it's given me more sense of responsibility. I find I can't do things without thinking about them before I act. It's made me more of an adult. Many new subtlety have entered into my life. I can appreciate the various shadings and tones of lire. Musically, I've improved. Five years ago I played the Copa. I had just come into the pop music business and it was my third club date. I was still leaming. I was a student. I learned to take advantage of a lyric ...to look at a piece of music and interpret it properly, ..to use contrast in my program, In my overall approach I learned how to entertain and get a message across to the audience.

COOKE -I like any song that has a good story. ..that says what it has to say simply. A repetitious phrase helps put the story across. A song should have a lilting melody.

PAULSEN -You've written many of your biggest hits, Sam. How do you go about song-writing?

COOKE -I take a segment of life. Like, one night I went to the Peppermint Lounge and just wrote down what was going on around me. Out of it came "Twisting The Night Away." I use phrases people say each day. Once I heard a guy saying " Another Saturday Night and I ain't gat nobody." That gave me an idea for a song. At a party I heard a kid sar "Everybody cha-cha-cha," That gave me another idea. I keep my ears open.

COOKE -Actually I rewrote it. Howlin' Wolf did it long ago. It had a humorous, yet human message. The old blues singers used bamyard characters to represent humans, particularly when it carne to mentioning sex.

PAULSEN -When you were younger and developing your vocal style, was there any singer whose sound influenced you to any great extent?

COOKE -Not consciously, Don. But every singer draws inadvertantly from everything he's heard and liked. For exarnple, he may phrase like someone he's heard and not be aware of it.

COOKE -I consider myself an interpreter of lyrics. I try to keep a good sense of timing so I can phrase the way I want and come out on the right note at the end. I developed this ability when I was singing spirituals. Like, you had to add a few more words to a chorus to put the message across emphatically, and still come out on time at the end.

COOKE -They are directly related. Most R&B and gospel is tinged with country music. Rock 'n' roll is influenced by every musical farm.

COOKE -Yes, Jazzmen are playing R&B tunes and doing them better, "Drown In My Own Tears" is taken directly from R&B.

COOKE -I like this thing by Getz, "The Girl From Ipanema." And Ramsey Lewis. He sits down and says something. ..says it churchy. It comes out and gets to me.

PAULSEN -I'd appreciate your opinion of the following performers. First, Ray Charles.

COOKE -Fantastic. He interprets the way he feels. He lives in a world of sound. His ears are more acute. You and I, our eyes sometimes distract us. But Ray Charles is versed in sound. That's the reason for his intense style.

COOKE -He knows consciously what he's going to do in advance. His emotion is more premeditated, but it comes across effectively.

COOKE -One of the best interpreters of lyrics. He has the ability to tell a story.

COOKE -Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker. Louis Armstrong and Pearl Bailey also have a strong feeling for the blues.

PAULSEN -Why does rhythm & blues appeal to younger people?

COOKE -When a kid is young he expects a lot out of life. Rhythm 'n' blues is the most fervent sound in pop music. When a person gets older he understands there's only so much to be gotten out of life. He doesn't have to have excitement all the time. He can take things with less intensity... hence his appreciation of jazz.

COOKE -A lot of it reflects the things people sar and do -like "Why Don't You Do Right" or "I'm Going To Bali Tonight." The music bas more fervor. Sometimes song writers will use symbolism to say things they couldn't come right out and say. Or they use double meanings, like when Dinah Washington sings about her dentist: "He thrills me when he drills me."

COOKE -It's a basic sound. It moves everybody. It kept Jimmy Reed existing for years even when he failed to get the message of the lyrics across.

COOKE -People often misunderstand different forms of music. Each is to be used in the proper context. Most pop music is for dancing, It has a fervent drive and beat. It's not for close listening. You wouldn't dance to a Wagner opera.

COOKE -They have honesty. They're a shrewd and observing bunch of young men. They surveyed the scene and supplied a need and they're selling records.

COOKE -I want to go to Las Vegas. I feel I'm ready now. I plan to appear along the club circuit and in concerts. Someday I'd like to do a Broadway play -but that's way into the future.

PAULSEN -Well, I'd say you've certainly been doing that very successfully, Sam. Thank you for talking with us, today.

Rhythm and Blues Magazine
Reprinted by permission from Rhythm & Blues Magazine, a Charlton Publicatlon

"Mr. Cooke is on the big, shiny nightclub floor for just short of an hour. A thin talent becomes transparent in all that light in that space of time. Mr. Cooke's talent stands the test. It may surprise but he has dignify, humility and feeling to go with a strong voice... In the years to come, more will be heard of Mr. Cooke. His is a talent that can grow."

Undoubtedly, had Sam Cooke lived, he would have stayed -for awhile, at least -in the vein this release found him, looking for showbill "legitimacy." Cooke's appearance at the swank New York Copacabana signaled another step upward for the great R&B stylist who'd begun as a gospel singer. That is, if you consider swingin' renditions of "Bill Bailey" and "Tennessee Waltz" a step up.

Cooke apparently did, but even if his goal was to be the next Sammy Davis, Jr. (which it wasn't), he couldn't help but bring soul to this would-be Vegas show. Still, compared to RCA's Cooke concert LP Live at the Harlem Square Club just a year before this, At The Copa is fairly lightweight, The voice is there, of course, and Cooke couldn't help but pour emotion into the performance, yet one can't help but feel as if I Cooke was feeling somewhat ambivalent about his place in the music world at this point, maybe the same way Elvis Presley later started to feel when songs like "My Way" began making their way into his shows. Cooke goes through the motions here, singing "Twistin' The Night Away" and "You Send Me," But he can't hide his contempt for material such as "Blowin' in The Wind" and "If I Had A Hammer," songs which really had very little to do with what Sam Cooke was all about.[1]

One wonders, in fact, if Cooke might have rebelled in a few years and perhaps even pulled an Al Green /Little Richard/Billy Preston and headed back to the gospel.

For, in the end, it's his reading of the gospel "This Little Light Of Mine" which stands out most on this excellently remastered CD. Obviously, we'll never know. But while this isn't the CD with which to start a Sam Cooke collection, it sure beats Sammy. Jeff Tamarkin

[1] It has been proven that it was exactly the opposite. Sam Cooke was very impressed by Blowin In The Wind, wondering how a white folksinger could write a song like it. Same goes for If I Had A Hammer, both songs are early civil rights songs and were put in the show for a very distinct reason.

More info on the re-released special CD in 2005 can be found on the official Sam Cooke site.